Interview granted to the Cultura Geral / Cult.Geral Podcast on July 18, 2023.
Betão (Cult.Geral Podcast):
Hello and welcome to Cultura Geral. It's always a pleasure to do Cultura Geral here on TV Banqueta and Rádio Cultura de Curitiba. We are starting another very special program here on the small screen, on the radio waves, right? And later as a podcast, available on all streaming platforms in Brazil and worldwide.
We start this program with my great friend Henrique Napoleão Alves, my professor at the Milton Campos Law School, now a managing member of the “Facts and Norms Institute”, based in the United States and also here in Brazil.
Henrique, it is a pleasure to have you here so you can talk about the Institute and this moment that we are experiencing worldwide. It is a challenge not only for institutions, but for all democracies and all fields of politics around the world. I think it is crucial to discuss these issues and also think about how institutions can help us.
Welcome once again, it is a pleasure to have you here.
Henrique Napoleão Alves:
Thank you, Betão, the pleasure is all mine. Firstly, I would like to thank you for this opportunity, for the space to speak to your audience about this project, which is very dear to my heart! And secondly, I would also like to greet all the friends who are with us on the radio and through all the program’s broadcasting channels.
Betão (Cult.Geral Podcast):
Great.
Henrique Napoleão Alves:
Our Institute, Betão, was created and conceived through a long process, a long-term project.
Since the beginning of my academic and professional journey, I have had the desire to put everything I was developing and learning at university, Betão, at the service of people. To try to make my contribution to face relevant social issues, my contribution to achieving a less unjust and more fraternal society… And I'm no different from many people, right? Many who are listening to us now have that same yearning, that same desire.
This desire is important, this yearning is important, but it is not enough. So, this initial will needed to be polished, it needed to be thought and rethought, until finally we started to take our first steps as an academic institution in 2021.
All this preparation was very interesting, you know? And it benefited from a series of experiences that I had already had as a professor.
We met in this context, as you mentioned, and I have also been involved in other projects you know about, right? I remember, Betão, participating in your program in 2017. At that time, I was a member of the Human Rights Commission of the OAB in Minas Gerais and a professor at Milton Campos. You were kind enough to invite me to talk about religious intolerance, which is one of the many serious problems affecting our society.
And the work I was doing there is not that different from what I do today at the Institute, Betão. Because to participate in your program, I and the people who helped me at the time, we carried out a study, a systematization of the problem of religious intolerance in Brazil. At that time, we talked to... Nilson, right?
Betão (Cult.Geral Podcast):
Nilson, exactly.
Henrique Napoleão Alves:
And Nilson brought all the contribution of someone who experiences this problem in practice at the local level, and we brought this international perspective, the international norms that were applied…
Betão (Cult.Geral Podcast):
That's right.
Henrique Napoleão Alves:
So, this idea of putting research at the service of qualifying the debate, qualifying the way we understand problems, has been with me for a long time. Now, from that, to becoming a structured academic organization that today has several projects… We will have the opportunity to talk about some of them today… It was quite a journey.
And on this journey, I would also like to highlight the following, Betão: we had the opportunity to study Law, and studying Law has many advantages, but it also has some limitations. For example, we don't usually learn much about Management.
Betão (Cult.Geral Podcast):
It's a challenge. A total challenge, right?
Henrique Napoleão Alves:
And without these management tools, I couldn't get that desire for change, that idea of putting research at the service of people, at the service of social problems, I couldn't get it off the ground. But in 2020-2021, I took a very important course that was a turning point. It was a course at the University of Copenhagen. There is a school linked to this university, which is a business school in Copenhagen, “Copenhagen Business School”; and it's a course on social entrepreneurship, which was exactly what I needed.
And this course made me realize that there was no point in wanting to create a huge institute, capable of doing many things right from the start, but that it was necessary to take a first step, a more modest one, but a firm one.
Another thing that he helped me with was identifying the problem I wanted to tackle and what solution I wanted to present for that problem. That's how the Facts and Norms Institute (FNI) was born. It has this name in English, Betão, because we do a lot of work at the UN, and the work we do at the UN, the main language ends up being English, right? But in Portuguese it's "Instituto Fatos e Normas".
Betão (Cult.Geral Podcast):
“Facts and Norms”; yes, I said it wrong before.
Henrique Napoleão Alves:
No problem! We are a recent institution! We launched in 2021, so it is natural that our audience in Minas Gerais is not yet fully familiar with us, although, despite the short time we have been in operation, we have already achieved some very interesting things! And I will, if you allow me, point out some of them…
Betão (Cult.Geral Podcast):
Feel free, Henrique, the program is yours.
Henrique Napoleão Alves:
We started with a project focused on researching infectious diseases and human rights. The focus was not only on Covid-19, but also other infectious diseases and the ways in which these diseases impact our societies. This was the first major project.
And, Betão, another thing about the management and administration side that was very useful for us to start this work was the idea of a “minimum viable product”. It is a very simple concept for management people, but which I was unaware of, and…
Betão (Cult.Geral Podcast):
What is the concept?
Henrique Napoleão Alves:
"Minimum viable product." So, a friend from the field, to explain it to me — in my ignorance regarding this area, right? — she said: “Look, if you have a dream of, for example, manufacturing a car, you should maybe start by manufacturing a scooter. And putting it on the road, and taking all the lessons you will learn from launching a product, from talking to people…”
Betão (Cult.Geral Podcast):
I remembered, remembering this way, interrupting you like this, I'm sorry.
Henrique Napoleão Alves:
No problem.
Betão (Cult.Geral Podcast):
A teacher who… well… in a little while I'll remember his name. He is one of the most renowned teachers who lectures on Marx, on Marxism itself, on the economic concept that Marx proposes. He says exactly that. That to build a theory, you first need to understand the object. So, you want to build a car? Try to build something with wheels first. Understand the dynamics, how it enters the curve, how it exits the curve, what it can be like, what is the most viable design…
Because what we have in excess, and we have a lot of it, I have noticed this a lot out there, is people who want to create a theory, to later apply it to the construction of the object, whatever it may be. Be it a theoretical object, be it an object of social or material construction...
And that's very much in line with the discourse, because you create theory, but when it comes to applying that theory, you haven't studied the object, so you can't be effective. Is that what you propose?
Henrique Napoleão Alves:
That's it, it's very similar. Because we couldn't get off the ground… We wanted, right from the start, to be practically a complete university, to have teaching, to have research in various areas… No, no. It is necessary to take a first firm step, more modest, but important as ours was: let's start with research. So, our dream is to one day be a complete university center, focused on promoting humanist values and a humanist approach to social reality.
We started as a research institute with this first project, which is a large project, to investigate all UN contributions, all UN documentation in relation to infectious diseases, in relation to all countries in the world. And so far, we have already identified more than two thousand UN documents.
This project is ongoing and one way I have to break down this wall of the Research Institute so that those who are not from this world understand the importance of this work is to give some examples, right?
When we were hit by the Covid-19 pandemic, we didn't know, or there was no study, that identified what the most common issues are when an infectious disease spreads, in relation to people's rights. And we realized that several issues, several problems that arose during the pandemic, had already been documented by the UN before, in relation to other diseases.
That is: although there are differences between infectious diseases, there are certain problems that seem to arise in the most different societies, in contexts of outbreaks or epidemics or pandemics of infectious diseases.
I could give two brief and concrete examples of this:
Right at the beginning of the pandemic, we observed, in several places in our region, the Americas, also in Europe and on other continents, a certain hostility towards people of Asian descent. I don't know if you remember this, it was even reported… And what was the reason for that? Many people, out of ignorance, associated the virus with a certain region, right? And they began to harass those who had phenotypic traits that hark back to that region. So that's xenophobia.
This had already been warned about, in other contexts, it had already arisen in other situations. For example, in an Ebola outbreak on the African continent, long before the Covid pandemic, the UN had already spoken out on how, to protect rights, it is necessary to protect people who may suffer this type of xenophobia. So, there's an Ebola outbreak in a region of the African continent, people from that region become… These people who migrated to other places become harassed, because they are identified with the disease or with the origin of the disease… Another example, people in situations of deprivation of liberty: they had a higher risk of catching Covid, because it is a very closed environment, our jails and prisons, they tend to have problems with overcrowding…
Betão (Cult.Geral Podcast):
They don't tend to, they do, right?
Henrique Napoleão Alves:
Many of them do. And throughout the region, not just in Brazil; in all Latin American countries, or most of them. So, not in relation to Covid at the time it emerged, but in relation to tuberculosis, for example, which is a different disease from Covid, but it is also an infectious disease; the UN had already spoken out on how that environment increases the risk of those people being affected by the disease. So, you have to be extra careful…
I'm citing two, but imagine there are many situations. So, this systematization allows people to be better prepared to deal with outbreaks of infectious diseases.
That was the first project. We launched the call for applications on April 3, 2021, and within three weeks, we received over 120 candidates wanting to be part of our Institute.
People from all over the world!
All the information is on our website, which is www.factsandnorms.com, but I mention here, Betão, look how interesting: more than 47 different countries, all these people. There are more than 120, I think there are 131 or 132 applications from more than 47 different countries.
People willing to collaborate with the Institute. From there we formed a network of researchers and have already systematized more than 2,000 documents, as I mentioned.
And we launched another project besides this one, which is the “Global Human Rights Observatory”; and more recently we are launching — and I tell you here first hand on your program and for your audience — our first external education activity!
We are going to do a course, Betão, in partnership with the University of Coimbra, Portugal.
They have a Human Rights Center there. This partnership has already been formalized. We are going to do a course together, a short course, which will be at the end of January and beginning of February 2024.
Naturally, we would not have achieved this important result without having developed work that had a significant reach, you know? Both this project on infectious diseases and the Global Observatory project, which, I would say, dialogues even more with your initial provocation.
You started the program by mentioning how our world suffers from problems and complications. The Global Observatory has everything to do with dealing with these problems and complications from a research point of view.
What do we do in summary, Betão?
As we formed a very interesting network of researchers — people from all continents, many researchers, Brazilian researchers, and people who are qualified in different areas and subjects… We monitor the demands that the UN has for technical studies, and then we identify people who are part of our network, and we form small teams to work and carry out a competent study on that specific subject.
So, for example… I think this will be one of the best examples I could give you, and it will be of great interest to those who are accompanying us.
The dramatic situation of the Yanomami and indigenous peoples, in general, affected by illegal mining in the Amazon, was on the agenda in Brazil at the beginning of this year [2023].
We had already carried out a technical study, it is available on our website, on illegal mining in the Amazon and mercury contamination resulting from this illegal mining, and we had already sent this information to the UN many months before.
Of course, we consider it an advance that this issue came to the fore, came to the national public debate, had significant media coverage, but long before that, the problem already existed and our Research Institute had already produced a technical study with an important diagnosis on this problem.
Another topic that we have also already studied is the topic of social participation. At the time, in 2021, we carried out a study, noting that there was a problematic trend in Brazil of regression, of setbacks in relation to the participation of people in councils, right?
Because previous governments had created very interesting instances of social participation for civil society to dialogue with decision-making bodies, to participate in the formulation of public policies, right? And many of these councils, later on, either were no longer operating, or were facing many difficulties in operating, or many difficulties in being heard, in having any relevance, anyway…
So, we did a study, at that time responding to a provocation from the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights and… Look, Betão, despite being a young institute, we were cited five or six times by the document that the UN adopted at that time on social participation, good practices and challenges for social participation and the revival of democracies.
On that occasion, the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights was Ms. Michelle Bachelet, who was president of Chile, our brother country here in South America.
And it's interesting, like, at least that's what I realize, you know? The UN doesn't want to know if you're a newly created research institute or if you're a traditional institution. She wants to see the quality of the study.
So, in this case, in other cases, we are proud that our name is on a list of institutions that contribute to the UN, which includes Harvard's humanitarian initiative… I mean, other major universities in the world, very traditional civil society organizations, and us, within our limits, our possibilities, also there being able to make a contribution.
This UN report on social participation also cites us five or six times, as I mentioned, and that's one way for us to know that we're making an impact.
Why, what's the point of doing these studies? Because we want to be heard. We want to convey quality information about a relevant problem and we want, from this, for the UN to dialogue with states, with governments… [So that] governments can review practices that, perhaps, are not aligned with or advancing human rights, right?
Betão (Cult.Geral Podcast):
Well, let me take the first break. Let me take the first break here on TV Banqueta on Rádio Cultura de Curitiba. We are talking here with Professor Henrique Napoleão. We are talking about the Facts and Norms Institute, based in the United States, and also with branches all over the world, including Brazil, here close to us, also in Minas Gerais. Just a minute, don't go away, we'll be right back here on TV Banqueta on Rádio Cultura de Curitiba with more Cultura Geral.
[BREAK]
Well, back with Cultura Geral here on TV Banqueta on Rádio Cultura de Curitiba, we are talking with Henrique Napoleão, we are talking a little about the Facts and Norms Institute, right?
Henrique, I wanted to ask you now, because we are going to talk a little about the Course that will be offered, or is being offered, right? That has a lot to do with Human Rights, has a lot to do with a series of things that you have been an activist for a long time. What is this course like, where did it come from, how did you create it, how did you think about it through the Institute?
Henrique Napoleão Alves:
Well, thank you very much for the question and for the space to talk about this course. This is the Institute's first teaching activity for an external audience.
So, I had commented in the first part of the program how we formed a first network of researchers with more than 40 researchers to carry out that study on infectious diseases and human rights. At that time, on that occasion, Betão, we had a first teaching experience, but it was internal, it was to train these researchers on how to do documentary research and documentary research based on a specific database, which is the Universal Human Rights Index, the UHRI. It is a database that people who deal with international human rights law are very used to using.
At this moment, we are launching this course first-hand on your program and also starting to publicize it on social media and on our website. It is an in-person course for an external audience.
The course is called "First Advanced Course in International Law and Human Rights" and it will be held in Portugal, in the city of Coimbra, from January 30, 2024 to February 2, 2024.
It will be a four-day course and, so that those who are accompanying us and who are able to participate, to make this trip, to participate in this journey with us, the course was put together with great care and it is super, super interesting.
We will have lectures and conferences with renowned professors and researchers, including the current director of the Faculty of Law of the University of Coimbra, Portugal, who is Professor Jonatas Machado.
Professor Jonatas was my advisor when I did my post-doctorate at the University of Coimbra.
We will have the course there on the University campus. The University of Coimbra, for those who are accompanying us, is a very traditional university, it was founded in 1290, so a few centuries before the arrival or, some argue, the invasion of America… And anyway, in other words, a traditionalist university, one of the oldest in the world.
The certificate is an advanced course certificate, it is not a certificate for a congress, or a seminar, or a colloquium, but for an advanced course, and this certificate will be issued by the IGC, Ius Gentium Conimbrigae, which is the Center for Human Rights at the Faculty of Law of the University of Coimbra. And, of course, in partnership with us, right?
Another very interesting thing about this course, Betão, is that it is an in-person course. So, the people who are going to participate will have the experience of immersion, right? An immersion in the University, an immersion in the city of Coimbra, in another country that, although it has similarities with ours in terms of language and some cultural aspects, also has many differences, which adds to the experience of those who can be there with us.
And for those colleagues who are teachers or researchers, there is also the possibility — totally optional — of presenting work. So, there is the possibility of submitting research and, if approved, the person will be able to give a lecture, present their work there during the course, and receive a specific certification; and there is also the possibility of publishing…
Betão, we are, in addition to a Research Institute, we are already a publisher, so we already have everything that is necessary for publication with the ISBN, which is that book indexing, professional design, all of this will be included.
Finally, I would highlight the cultural program. The course will not only have conference activities, presentations, it also has a special cultural program with a guided tour. The guide from there. It will be a guided tour of the historic complex of the University of Coimbra, which is recognized by UNESCO as a World Heritage Site.
I would also like, if you allow me, to comment on something on a personal and family level.
Betão (Cult.Geral Podcast):
Feel free!
Henrique Napoleão Alves:
My father's family comes from Portugal, Betão. And my grandfather didn't have the opportunity to study, he lived in the countryside, and he was also a laborer and had a few different jobs, knowing a little about everything. He was a bit of a shoemaker, a bit of a farmer, raised some animals… And in the 1950s, he came with his whole family to seek a better life here, and settled in Santa Luzia, here close to us.
At that time he was working on a dredge that was mining the Rio das Velhas. He was one of the workers on that dredge. For my father's family, the University of Coimbra was something from another world. It was something that made their eyes light up, who didn't have the opportunity to study.
And my father had the opportunity to study Law here, and he was the first in his family to study.
And decades later, when he had the chance to return to Portugal, in his simplicity, he brought me a pen from the University of Coimbra and a knit shirt. He handed it to me and said, "Son, if you can ever study there, it will be a great joy, a great honor for us."
And several years passed until I had the opportunity to do my post-doctorate there, and when I completed my post-doctorate in 2018, I handed him the certificate, and it was a very big victory for us.
Now, in 2023, we will have the opportunity to return to Coimbra and I will be one of the professors of this course, and I am one of the organizers of this course. So, on a personal and family level, it is also a great pride to be able to carry out this activity there.
Unfortunately, my father passed away in April 2021. God wanted him to go, to make this crossing on the day the Institute was officially launched, which was when we issued the call for the first project on infectious diseases and human rights; and he himself passed away after battling an infection that affected his lungs.
So, in addition to being an important step for our organization and for everyone who is part of it, on an individual level, it is a great joy for me to be able to run this course.
And I'm very grateful for this opportunity to talk about the course and to invite everyone who's listening, especially those in the fields of Law or International Relations, at all levels and areas. You are all very welcome to join this activity! The course was designed to be inclusive and welcoming to all professionals, whether from the private sector, lawyers, public servants, magistrates, graduate and undergraduate students, professors, researchers…
This course was made for everyone!
I also want to highlight the following: everyone who enrolls will receive bonus material completely free of charge. It will be included in the registration, and it's about human rights and international law. It will be a leveling e-book, so that those who are just curious about international law and human rights but haven’t had the opportunity to study it in depth, will be able to easily follow along. Everyone is very welcome. This e-book will provide all the fundamentals so that everyone can fully enjoy the course.
Betão (Cult.Geral Podcast):
Excellent. Let's take one more break, our last one for today. We'll be back in a minute here at TV Banqueta on Rádio Cultura de Curitiba with a final message from Professor Henrique Napoleão Alves. Don't go away!
[BREAK]
We are back with Cultura Geral here on TV Banqueta on Rádio Cultura de Curitiba. We are finishing this fantastic interview with Professor Henrique Napoleão Alves from the Facts and Norms Institute. Henrique, leave us with a final message for our listeners. You already mentioned some information, but if someone wants to take the course, how can they do it? What should they access? How do they access it? Let's be clear, so people can be sure with so much fake news around these days…
Henrique Napoleão Alves:
That’s true. Well, for everyone following us, the first thing I want to say in these final words is to invite you to learn more about our work on social media and our website. Our website is: www.factsandnorms.com. You can find us on social media as “Facts and Norms”. Just type @factsandnorms. We are on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn.
You can find information about the course on our website at: www.factsandnorms.com/curso.
Besides the Institute's social media, you can also find me on Instagram, LinkedIn, Twitter, and Facebook under my full name, Henrique Napoleão Alves, if you want to follow my work or contact me. I’ll be happy to answer any questions about the course, the Institute's work, or if you want to learn more about our studies for the UN. I've mentioned two or three here, but we have conducted over 20 since 2021, Betão. I’m always open to dialogue about human rights. It will be a pleasure to clarify any doubts and share more information about our work.
Betão (Cult.Geral Podcast):
Excellent! We have reached the end of this special program. Professor, thank you once again for your generosity and for accepting our invitation. It is an honor and a pleasure to have you here with us for this interview.
Henrique Napoleão Alves:
Thank you, Betão. I wish you all the best in your journey and your projects! I always follow your work, even from afar. I'm always happy to witness your victories, your achievements, and see what this program has become: such an important space for communication and journalism focused on relevant issues, giving voice to those who fight and work to improve our society. This is extremely valuable. So, I want to publicly express my gratitude and praise your work. I'm at your service; whenever you need me, my friend, I'm here. A big hug.
Betão (Cult.Geral Podcast):
Thank you very much. That's it for us today, folks, after such kind words from our wonderful guest. Sending you all a warm hug. We will be back tomorrow with more Cultura Geral here on TV Banqueta on Rádio Cultura de Curitiba. A kiss to everyone's heart and see you tomorrow, God willing!
Comments